HomeForumsGeneral Musician TopicsAdvice for experienced Songwriter/Singer/Drummer/Guitarist/Bassist

This topic has 5 voices, contains 9 replies, and was last updated by  TylerAJames 161 days ago.

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December 5, 2011 at 12:15 am #6917

TylerAJames

Hello, everyone! I’m new to this site, so please be kind!

I have been playing music since I could stand up. When I was 12, a scout from Berklee school of music came to hear me play the drums in a small town in PA to tell me "When you’re old enough, you really should go to Berklee." Instrumental instructors, band teachers, professors, and fellow musicians have been telling me that I should "Go somewhere… NYC, Nashville, LA. You have what it takes, man."

I wish it was that easy!

At this point, I have a B.A. in Music Performance (voice), I’m a trained drummer, self-taught guitarist and bassist, I’ve been writing songs for years, sold over 1,000 records of all originals, been on tour countless times, etc. But I’m stuck here in northwestern Pennsylvania, where there are essentially NO opportunities for musicians.

I’ve been planning to move to New York City or Los Angeles next fall (I have friends in both), and I want advice from more experienced professionals. What should I expect? What’s a good day job for someone who will be new in a big city? What is your overall advice? I ask because really, I’m pretty clueless. I want to be as prepared as possible, and don’t want to be in over my head. I say this from the most humble standpoint possible.

Another question – should I go to grad school? Is it worth the money?

December 5, 2011 at 5:04 pm #8076

funkyguitar

I moved from Boston to Portland, OR earlier this year to pursue music. While not as big a city as New York or Los Angeles, I think the basics of networking are the same. For me, it involved going to jam sessions and scouring Craigslist (in the final analysis, the musicians I met in person translated into me getting gigs; things didn’t really go anywhere with the people I met on Craigslist). What are your goals? Do you want to put together your own band? Depending on what you want to specifically do, it will affect how you network. From your post, it seems as though your own original music is what you’ve done the most of in the past. I would suggest getting involved in a music scene. Open mics typically have a musicians community that revolve around it. There’s strength in numbers.

As far as grad school goes, if you want to teach at the college level, you will need to get a masters degree, if not a Ph. D. I think it’s only worth the money in that case.

Lance
[url=http://www.lancevallis.com]www.lancevallis.com[/url]

December 5, 2011 at 9:21 pm #8084

TylerAJames

Thanks for the reply! I have primarily focused on my songwriting in the past, however I am willing and capable of playing other peoples’ music. Here’s a list of work areas I am interested in doing, in no order of importance:

1. Songwriting (For other artists as well as myself)
2. Composing (For films, other performing groups, etc)
3. Sideman for an established artist (Willing to tour extensively)
4. Studio session work
5. Regular bar gig/Pit musician for musical/Church gigs

The list could go on forever. Ultimately, I plan to do any combination of the above in order to pay the bills, until one of them seems to take off in one direction, then I’ll stick with it.

I think mainly, as for now, I want to improve my sight reading for vocals, drums, and guitar. I’m sure going back to grad school will help with that (while also putting me thousands of dollars MORE in debt).

December 6, 2011 at 4:44 am #8093

Cameron Mizell

Hi Tyler,

I think you’re in the right place to learn about this kind of thing. This whole website is about doing what you’re trying to do.

When you play your original music, expect to pay your band, even if it means out of pocket, and especially if you’re looking for sideman work as well. That’s how I operate, as well as everyone I work with. We joke about how we’re all just passing the same $50 around, but it keeps everyone professional and dedicated to the music.

Like Lance said, the main thing to do is just get out and start meeting people. Go to shows, talk to the performers, talk to the people in the crowd… there’s a good chance half the audience plays too, and are just out to support the scene. All of my best gigs have come through face to face networking.

A day job will definitely help, especially when you first move up here. I’d recommend temp work, if you can get it. Make appointments at every temp agency you can find. It’s usually very dull work, but punching the clock like that pays the bills and then you can go home and practice before heading out to a show.

Good luck!
Cameron

December 6, 2011 at 8:52 pm #8103

TylerAJames

Thank you very much!

I must admit, I do get sort of scared when people say “temp work.” I don’t like the idea of temporary jobs because once one job is over, I’ll be out of money – end of story. I’d prefer something more regular, but I understand that’s probably a long shot for someone like me.

Paying my band might mean I lose money, though. I have been booked for a lot of shows, and 90% of them have been for free. Perhaps it’s just because I’m in NW Pennsylvania.. and around here, there’s no money to go around to begin with, haha!

Would it be a reasonable goal to find a weekly paying gig at a church, or churches in NYC? Right now I make an extra $50 a week drumming for a small local church, and I’ve heard they pay much more in the city. I’d be thrilled to make an extra $400 a month by playing a few simple church songs on the weekends…

December 7, 2011 at 5:40 pm #8107

Nick Rosaci

Some of the coolest non-musical jobs I’ve had were through temp agencies. I did these jobs over the summer when I was home from college. I worked as a mail clerk in my hometown’s school board. It was a very pleasant job, everyone was incredibly nice, and I looked forward to heading there every day. When I started teaching around the district, I knew many of the important people. For a month, I worked as a construction worker building sound proof interiors and setting up office furniture at Kennedy Space Center, less than 100 yards from shuttle pad 39B. I saw the pad, one of the shuttles, and the crawler that transports the shuttle from the hangar to the pad. It was an awesome sight that very few people ever get to see. And I wasn’t allowed to take pictures for security reasons, so the memory is only in my head.

The great thing about temp jobs is they’re diverse. Just when you get tired of one job, it ends, and as long as you did your job well, there’s another one waiting for you right as one finishes. You might have a day or two off, but if I were you, I’d take full advantage of your days “off” to network and shed.

Dave wrote this article a while back. It’s right up the alley of what some of your questions tend to be:

http://www.musicianwages.com/the-working-musician/best-and-worst-day-jobs-for-musicians/

As for finding a $400 church gig, I’ve been in Orlando for over a year, and only have one sub spot at a church. I was turned away with most local churches, telling me their musicians are volunteer only, then find out later that it is a paying gig. You may or may not have better luck, but realize that with a higher paid city comes much higher rent. But, if you think you could do it, by all means, head out there. I think living in a large city would be beneficial to your musicianship, even if it isn’t for your wallet. If it doesn’t work, you can always leave. But at least you tried.

December 8, 2011 at 12:16 am #8114

Cameron Mizell

[quote]Paying my band might mean I lose money, though.[/quote]

True, I’ve lost money on many of my trio gigs. When I first moved to NYC, I started selling sofa beds, then office supplies. Worst jobs ever (for me). But the paycheck paid bills and helped me fund my own original music. I was my own patron. A lot of people do this.

If you really want to do this, you’ve got to think of your band like a business. Inflow and outflow. The goal is to make everything balance out, and then make it profitable. Nothing motivates like trying to get out of the red!

Also, as a sideman I’m never shy telling people what they have to pay me, because if I pay my band, they can pay me. It’s fair and it’s the right thing to do.

Bottom line, you’re going to need multiple streams of income. Temp work would just be one of them (and if you’re good, your agency will keep you busy). There are plenty of churches that hire singers and musicians in NYC, you’ve just got to meet the right people to find out about those opportunities.

No matter where you go it’s not going to be easy, but I think there are a lot of opportunities up here for people who hustle. Plus you’re young, and it’s a lot easier to get started in music when you’re younger, don’t mind having roommates, and have a lower cost of living.

December 8, 2011 at 1:19 am #8115

TylerAJames

Great, thank you all so much for your helpful pointers.

I was worried that I might get a bunch of “You have NO idea what you’re doing” responses. I’m pretty sure I’m ready to take some sort of leap of faith, get to a bigger city, make the sacrifices necessary, and try out the lifestyle of a serious musician. I’ve been doing a lot of planning, and looking up information on it, and I really think I’m ready. The next step is the biggest one, and that’s actually going and doing it!

December 8, 2011 at 4:23 pm #8123

JoshuaSkaja

Hey Tyler,

It sounds like you have the music end of things down, which means it’s time to start focusing on the business end of things. Yes, the dreaded SALES part of our job. Don’t worry though, there’s nothing sleazy about selling the product that is yourself––after all, you’ve worked incredibly hard to make that product nothing short of amazing, right?

I know dozens of people far more talented than I am, but not nearly as successful (as measured using the admittedly flawed but rather convenient metric of “money earned”).

Derek Sivers gave a great talk at Berklee where he recommends (among other things) reading a business book a week. Worth seeking that talk out.

December 8, 2011 at 5:36 pm #8126

TylerAJames

Thanks, Joshua!

My years of touring and trying to sell my old band’s CD’s and T-Shirts taught me a few things about business. The only problem I faced was convincing promoters and venues that my music was worth paying for. We played a lot of DIY venues, and there really wasn’t much payout. When I would even ask for something like $50 to cover gas (which isn’t even enough to cover half of a 6 hour drive with a van and trailer), I felt like I was being a jerk, and we usually never got paid what we asked anyway.

I suppose, once I get connected with a more active music scene in a city that has more to offer, payout will be more sensible.

Which brings me back to my point – I guess I need to relocate. (Takes deep breath)… it’s time!

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