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May 9, 2011 at 3:40 am #6806

ethomasjohnson

<p>I have a very specific question directed towards others with music directing/conducting experience, and I am asking those who conduct while playing an instrument specifically, not standing conductors. </p>
<p>How many beats do you give your pit when beginning a new song/new tempo?
</p>

May 9, 2011 at 4:19 pm #7569

Andree-Ann

Hi!

I can’t speak from experience as a conductor myself, but I have played under the direction of many people and maybe I can offer advice for that.

When changing tempo in the middle of a song for example, many conductors seem to only give 2 beats ahead of time, which clearly isn’t enough most of the time. Whenever it is logistically possible, aim for 4 beats, this will give everyone the time to not only raise their heads and look at you but also to assimilate the tempo correctly before switching off to the new section. Again, once you run the same show or tune for a while, people will just know how it goes and everything will run rather smoothly.

For a new tune, most people go with 4 beats. I’ve had some conductors give out 6, as in 3-4-1-2-3-4 kinda deal, which is just confusing, personally.

This is all in relation with a 4/4 marking but I’m sure you get the idea.

I’m sure David will have something to say about that, since I believe he directed a lot – he probably has some great insights. I’m just talking from my experience of being ‘conducted’ as opposed to conducting.

May 9, 2011 at 5:16 pm #7570

Higgs

I would have to disagree, respectfully of course. Often in the middle of a song, there just isn’t time to give anything but an upbeat. Especially if the the tempo change is immediate. If there’s a fermata or the like before the change, then I don’t see why a 3-4 (or the equivalent) wouldn’t be sufficient.

If the musicians are familiar with the show, then an upbeat or a 3-4 should be fine. In a cruise ship situation, where everyone is still sight reading the charts, then I would generally give a bar for nothing. If it’s a fast 2, or a quick waltz, then maybe 2 bars for the sake of togetherness. On ships, it’s customary to count out loud (quite loudly too), which took some getting used to.

A side note: I recently worked with a “conductor” who would give an upbeat to her upbeats. But only sometimes. People were always coming in a beat early, or a beat late if they tried to second guess her. And she would yell “just follow me!”. My golden rule is – be clear and consistent, and do the least amount to get what you need to do done.

May 10, 2011 at 11:34 pm #7579

ethomasjohnson

Thank you both for your responses. I hope to hear from others as well. I generally give two counts (i.e., 3-4) to begin a song, at the most. For tempo changes, it depends on the situation. As often as possible, I use some metric conversion to make the change so conducting isn’t necessary (i.e., quarter-note becomes half-note). I was actually thinking two counts is too much, as classical conductors often give an upbeat at the most to establish tempo, feel, dynamic, etc. I am surprised, Andree-Ann, that you’ve worked with conductors that give a full 4/4, as it seems like that would be hard to coordinate with a cue from the stage. Perhaps I’m being too hard on myself for giving two beats.

Thanks!

May 11, 2011 at 12:29 am #7580

Andree-Ann

Haha yeah, the conductor I was referring to had a fixation on giving as many beats as possible.

It did help for rehearsals and whatnot, but when we got to the actual show, everyone could feel the tempo without having all those beats given to them.

May 11, 2011 at 3:04 am #7581

David J. Hahn

Good question.

What you’re talking about is the “prep” – and it should be only 1 beat.

If everyone plays on measure 1, beat 1 – then you only give one prep.

If there is a pickup into the beginning of a song, then you give one full beat in the clear (prior to the beat with the pickup). For example, if you have an eighth note pickup into measure 1, then you give “3-4″ as the prep. If you have three eighth notes into measure 1 (and-four-and) – then you prep “2-3″.

In other words – you only give what is absolutely necessary. If you are accurate in your prep you don’t need more than 1 – trained musicians don’t need more than 1 prep to feel a tempo. That’s what they are trained to do.

If you need to give your musicians more than 1 prep, you have to ask yourself: why? Do you not trust your musicians? Are you not giving an accurate prep?

Higgs makes a good point – he’s referring to what I call “prepping your prep”. It’s a bad habit. If a conductor only means to give 1 prep, but they give a slight tick right before the prep…well, which one is the prep? Often conductors don’t think bands notice – but again, musicians are highly trained and notice everything when they are looking for a downbeat.

Most conductors feed the tempo to the band prior to the entrance prep. Some tap their chest with their hand or finger. I tap my middle finger to my thumb in tempo and show it to the pit. That’s a way to get everyone on the same page while you’re waiting for the cue.

And lastly – these rules are broken all the time. Especially in groove-based music. But when in doubt, just give as few preps as you possibly can.

May 11, 2011 at 3:11 pm #7592

ethomasjohnson

Dave,

Thanks for the input. Everything you say confirms what I suspected with more professional pits. I also agree with an article on this site addressing good music directing habits that finding the right drummer is essential. Unfortunately, there are many musicians out there that need more than the single prep. I find that when my hands are free, giving a clear upbeat is not so difficult. It becomes more difficult using only my head, where nuance and range in tempo seems more limited. Maybe my neck isn’t flexible enough!

I’m glad you mentioned the pre-cue tempo placement with the pit, as I’ve figured that one out as well, but I didn’t know if other MD’s did it. That seems to make things much simpler come cue-time, especially if it is a song where there is some (innocent) tempo disagreement between cast and pit.

Thanks to everyone (so far) for sharing! I would love to hear more opinions as well.

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