When playing restaurants and bars etc. I've found I have to vary my price according to the size of the place the economic level of the place etc.
Is there some type of formula or guideline to follow? Like there are X amount of tables in this restaurant and the menu prices fall into a high or low bracket etc. so therefore I should charge X amount for performing here.
That's a pretty good idea. Maybe we could develop it here and put it up as an article on the site. We'll give everyone credit.
The problem we've always run into is that geography has so much to do with it. Your profile says you live in Austin. I live in NYC, we have a lot of readers in Chicago, California, overseas...
Maybe we could come up with a formula that included per capita income of the area? So, for instance, you take the price the price of a cup of coffee off the menu, the number of seats, the per capita income of the area...make a formula.
Anybody good at this stuff?
Also, it would help to have an idea of what everybody's making? I know when I worked at a country club back in Illinois I'd bring in $250 for 4 hours. I always felt like that was a kind of standard for me back then.
How much are you making in Austin?
I can also point you to this article I wrote:
Calculating an Hourly Rate as a Musician
But I know that might not totally answer your question.
This is a good idea. A complicated idea, but it would be very helpful.
The biggest factor I see is draw. If you're being hired to play in a busy restaurant to add ambiance, then I'm sure you can charge more. If you're being hired to help bring people into the joint, than you may have to charge based on a percentage of the bar, at least to start.
I also think it's easier to negotiate in a smaller town. Restaurants in large cities tend to pay what they pay, or charge a cover, and you either take it or don't play there.
For some gigs I'm getting $25 and hour;for others $35 but I know I can do better than that. There are some bars that offer the band a certain percentage of whatever is pulled in while the group is playing. Sometimes that can be next to nothing. I just had to turn down one such offer when it was explained to me that the days they wanted to hire me for so far had been completely dead. I would be setting up for nothing.
The smaller town idea had not worked so well in our area. I first started looking for gigs in the small towns around Austin. I received offers for my wife and I to play 4 sets for $50 or to play for tips and drinks.
I know that in consumer math you're taught that so much square footage must be allowed in a restaurant for each table--so many ounces of meat make up a portion etc. so I figured we could quantify things some how for musicians.
A friend of mine who has played in upstate New York and in Florida tells me that in nice hotels, restaurants, and resorts etc. he's been paid $250, $350, and $450 for 3 sets. In smaller places or not so high end he's had to vary his price.
It would be helpful to have someone in the restaurant/bar/hotel business help us by explaining how they see it. If a musician says X amount of dollars, what goes through his head? Does he think, that's how much I make from X amount of tables etc.?
I'll check out the article you suggested.
All good points. I'll see if we can find a booker for a restaurant or hotel to do a guest blog or interview. Maybe we should try to interview the hiring manager of a hotel or restaurant in Austin? Throw us some names of places that hire musicians and I'll be happy to contact them.
I guess a question to ask is: why are they hiring us in the first place? I mean, what's in it for the restaurant. Then maybe we could better answer what is in it for us.
They hire us to attract more customers, right? Live music adds an energy to a room that many people find attractive. Or, do they hire musicians because they think we have fans that will come to see us and spend money? Put another way - is it the music or the musician that they are paying for?
I think it's a big distinction to make. If they are hiring for the atmosphere, the musician should be paid based on the size of the restaurant, price of the food, etc. If they are hiring for the musician's draw, they should be paid for the amount of business they bring in.
Thoughts?
What do you think about contacting Dax Robertson? He's a musician in the Austin area and books musicians.
Here's some information from the Austin Federation of Musicians regarding engagements in lounges, nightclubs, bars, pubs, restaurants, cafes, and coffeehouses. (They have other prices for larger venues)
Sidemusician Minimum Fees
Weekday rate $70.00, not to exceed 4 hours
Weekend rate (Friday & Saturday) $80.00 not to exceed 4 hours.
Single Performer Minimum Fee (which would apply to my situation)
The fee is 150% of the applicalbe Sidemusician Minimum Fee. (So that would mean weekday rate not to exceed 4 hours would be $105.00 and weekend rate $120.00)
I came across an interesting comment that said that the person to first bring up a money amount in the job interview is always at a disadvantage. Has anyone here on this forum experienced this?
That's great info. Is that the AFM chapter in Austin?
I absolutely think the first person to bring up money is at a disadvantage. I read a book recently - check it out:
Negotiate This!: By Caring, But Not T-H-A-T Much
That has been hugely influential for me. I always try not to name a price first.
I'll have to check out that book and get some ideas on how to handle those conversations.
The fees I posted are from the Austin chapter of the Federation of Musicians. Do you think it's important to be a member?
Regarding contacting the hiring managers of hotels and restaurants, here are some links to a hotel and restaurant in Austin that have live music.
Hey timeforsax, good news. We've got a guest blogger on this assignment. He's going to try to find a booker to talk to and we'll get an interview up on the site. Hopefully that'll give us a few answers at least.
Good deal!!
Like there are X amount of tables in this restaurant and the menu prices fall into a high or low bracket etc. so therefore I should charge X amount for performing here.
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